Is the North Carolina Locksmith License Board Being Dismantled? Idiot or Genius?

3/20/2016

On August 11, 2013 SOPL Director of Operations, Barry Campbell wrote a blog article titled Licensing Boards Under Fire from Federal Trade Commission - Restriction of Trade & Violating Anti-Trust Laws. In his article he briefly referenced the locksmith licensing board but added that it is not an issue of locksmith licensing in particular. As a result, while I was attending a trade show in North Carolina I was told I was an "idiot" by a person who was intimately involved in the creation of locksmith licensing and their board. I found the unsolicited remark to be off color and questioned why I would be attacked because of Barry's eloquent presentation of facts that were not initiated by the SOPL or myself and certainly not an attack upon the North Carolina licensing board.

Fast forward to March 17, 2016 and we find an article written by Matt Caulder titled State Looks to Remove 15 Licensing Boards where the North Carolina state legislative subcommittee approved draft legislation that would dissolve 15 occupational licensing boards in the state, included was locksmith licensing. So as I read this new report, I question just who the idiot may really be. I commend Barry Campbell once again for his continued insight into such issues. The opposite of idiot, is wisdom and genius!

The SOPL is the only locksmith organization that is presenting taboo topics to the hardworking locksmiths to help them become educated and informed, and it does so for the good of the order. I find the irony that some who consider themselves the elite chose to call others idiots when the results prove otherwise. An idiot lives only in his own world and who takes no outside input. The SOPL has given input, but others living in their own world do not listen.

The SOPL has responsibly advocated for the hardworking locksmiths who have been faced with unreasonable entrepreneurial interference. We have reported the facts, not created the problem. The idiots did that!

13 Comments

Steve Stroud link

3/21/2016 21:37:43

I am the current Chairman of the NC Locksmith Licensing Board. I have read that my board and the subsequent locksmith licensing requirements should be abolished to open the market to those that can't afford it otherwise. I take exception to those statements in that it cost $200 to take the licensing test that would show a persons competency to perform the duties of a locksmith and the Licensing fee of $100 for a license spanning a three year period. If that cost is so insurmountable, I question that persons ability to operate a business in the first place. Our state along with many others are experiencing widespread scamming in our industry whereby they advertise very cheap services and then inflate, that cost at its completion. If licensing were not required, we would see this explode as well as folks with a criminal record having the ability to operate as a locksmith. The practicing locksmiths in this state sought the licensing, not to impede others from getting into our profession, but to insure that those that do, are seeking to improve our profession not rip off it citizens. We wanted to protect the profession not restrict those that enter. Yes there are probably some licensing and respective boards that may not be needed, However, I sincerely question the logic of deregulating an industry where those that operate in a business that bypasses both commercial and residential locks and other security systems without oversight or regulation. You must ask yourself, do you want to have a person with no background check making keys to your home or business, changing the combination on your safe?

Barry Campbell link

3/22/2016 01:36:44

Steve,

I appreciate your acknowledging that your state, along with many others, is “experiencing widespread scamming in our industry.” I can then only question the effectiveness of the licensing program. I would assume that is also part of the reason the state is considering eliminating the licensing requirements.

You speak only of the costs of the test and license, but haven't considered the numerous associated costs – the costs of the continuing education, travel to the testing sites, the time taken off to take the test, the inherent time delays involved in getting the license – especially when it is offered only quarterly and only at specific locations.. These costs, in terms of both money and time, fall hardest on someone entering the field. These same costs are happily paid by existing businesses when it results in reduced competition.

You consider these costs minimal. In one sense, you are correct – they are not enough to cover the administration, let alone the enforcement, of the licensing programs.

This is not “deregulating” the industry – all the consumer protection laws are still applicable, both local and federal.

You must ask yourself, do you care enough about the industry to police ourselves through self-regulation or do you want to turn that responsibility over to politicians and bureaucrats?

Cesar Lavandier

3/22/2016 07:26:45

FYI:
Most information given to the consumers are not accurate.
Most of Locksmith Scammers are licensed members and the few ones that are not, works for one. Once they get exposed a licensed locksmith will verify their employment. We will soon exposed my findings in our soon to come YouTube channel.
74F-12 Posting licenses; advertisements.
(a) Every locksmith issue a license under this Chapter shall display the license prominently in the locksmith's place of business.
(b) All advertisements for locksmith services shall include a valid license number issue by the Board. The license number of the owner of the locksmith company shall satisfy the requirements of this subsection.
The NC Board can't even make their members follow their rules/laws.

Tom Lynch link

3/21/2016 22:40:07

Thanks for your contribution Steve. Were you aware of the draft legislation spoken about in Matt Caulders article?

3/21/2016 23:23:07

Yes, I have been aware that something was in the works for some time now. Our executive director notified me when the bill was filed.

Rafe Rountree

3/22/2016 23:51:10

First our license is to keep out criminals, we are a security based business, every house I make keys for I have their key code, every vehicle I make keys to I have their vehicle information and every commercial business I change a safe combo at I know or have knowledge of the combination, I don't want someone with a sketchy background or a convicted felon to have the opportunity to start their own business and neither do the public, I had several people say it was good to see my credentials, now about the money involved in getting a license and testing if you think that all this cost too much then you will never be able to afford the equipment that cost a hundred times more than the testing and licensing ever cost, we have the least amount of money for licensing than any other licensed occupation out there ie. licensed electrician, licensed plumer, licensed nurse, most people don't even know we have to be licensed but they sure do appreciate it, by the way I am a soul proprietor, I'm by myself, I'm the owner and the worker so if I can afford a license anyone can, It should be a law abiding citizen in this profession only bar none and they should have to have a criminal background check, we all have had that done, we have all put in the time and effort to do all of this and it's not fair, just or right for everyone else to do the same. Thank you for your time Rafe Rountree Rountree Lock and Key

3/23/2016 22:48:42

That's part of the problem, Rafe; licensing doesn't keep criminals out. Remember Run Local? Run Local was licensed in the states that required it. See http://www.sopl.us/news-blog/definitive-proof-that-locksmith-licensing-is-a-con-job-what-your-not-being-told. Not only are scammers getting the licenses when they want them, but when complaints are made against licensed companies, they are rarely prosecuted in any meaningful way. See http://www.sopl.us/news-blog/the-sopl-shines-a-light-on-the-dark-side-of-the-locksmith-industry-locksmith-licensing-is-shady-business#comments – 281 complaints about locksmiths in California, only 17 cited, not a single license revoked in a two year period.

So, we are absolutely agreed that we don't want criminals operating as locksmiths, but in complete disagreement on how to achieve that goal. The licensing experiment should end – it is a demonstrable failure, at least as far as promoting consumer protection is concerned.

3/24/2016 23:01:38

I get the impression people are not watching the video included in the blog post. I don't see where the representatives from the John Locke Foundation stated that they advocate for a free-for-all. I hear them make comments about reasonable efforts to review applicants, certifications and more. I am concerned that the cost of the actual license and test are only focus and not other combined expenses involved, such as cost of maintaining a license, travel expense to attend approved courses, loss of revenue and more. In certain states if you total combined expenses, it is easy to see there is a problem for many and this includes existing locksmiths. Many of whom are now unable to sell their businesses or finding employees. North Carolina is not being singled out here, it just happens to now be ground zero.

As for someone's ability to operate a business because they may not be able to afford ALL costs for a startup, I respectfully disagree. The ability to operate a business has nothing to do with someone's ability to pay-to-play. As for protecting the profession, I have to ask - from what? This industry has been around since the Egyptians, and many of the most vocal proponents in favor of licensing have grown their businesses without interference, licensing or regulatory restrictions. It seems hypocritical for me because the excuses are so varied. I understand some will say it was needed to protect the locksmith from the alarm industry, but does that require a license or simply efforts to seek exemptions? It seems with all the exemptions locksmith licenses give, the only persons considered untrustworthy in need of oversight is the locksmiths themselves. Seems odd, doesn't it?

I also disagree about someone's ability to afford the equipment needed to grow their business. I started with just a car opening kit 30 years ago that cost $45 and an impression file, vise grip and screwdriver. I think it is unfair to assume everyone must be equivalent in economic stature to others who have had years of a head start. Unless someone is a "silver spooner" who was given a locksmith business from their Father/Mother, they may not understand what is involved in building a business or a career on their own.

I am curious to learn what people believe has "improved" since licensing has been put in place. Not one person can point to any state where licensing exists where scammer activity has stopped or been prevented. Only days ago, I learn of a felon (a very creepy guy) has a license in California as well as being an ALOA-SPAI member according to his website. How does this happen if the argument for licensing is that it protects the profession? In fairness however, where is the line drawn for rehabilitation or is someone to become socially handicapped? Is there ever consideration towards rehabilitation? Having three DWI's in some states is considered a felony charge even though it is considered a disease or illness. Does this mean someone cannot be great at installing door closers and should be prevent from enter this profession? All good questions for discussion.

I present these questions for quality and educated discussion. I am sure the person who called me an "idiot" cannot comprehend the concept of having an open and educated discussion, but others can. North Carolina has a great group of (good actors) locksmiths, friendly and respectful. I won't let one bad apple change my view.

3/24/2016 23:25:25

Please read this -

http://www.sopl.us/news-blog/are-you-a-professional-locksmith

Bob

3/25/2016 11:55:08

Nice video. I agree with Mr. Locke. Most people for licensing seem to be in it to keep people out of the business, not so much to protect consumers but to reduce competition. Consumer awareness, ensuring sensitive tools, equipment and materials are only sold to legit businesses is a big help. We don't have licensing in my State and Scammers dont seem to be doing too much here. The Suppliers we have here like IDN Hoffan and others here will not do business or do not give wholesale prices to those that cannot prove to be legit business (business permit, tax id #, etc...). It tends to discourage them from buying locksmith supplies.

Society of Professional Locksmiths link

3/25/2016 22:50:07

The Society of Professional Locksmiths National Solution

The Society of Professional Locksmiths proposes a “registration” of companies and individuals engaged in the locksmith industry and or related sales/services. The Society does not endorse licensing or regulations that place undue burdens and/or unjustifiable requirements on members of the trade. We believe this solution provides a much more reasonable and effective solution for everyone.

It is our position that "registration" will be accepted by the locksmiths, particularly if it provides registration for anyone and everyone who possesses the tools and equipment, practices the skills, or are individuals involved in the locksmith industry, and those who provide related services. This requires everyone from a student in the craft, retirees, hobbyists to business owners, their staff, and other service and retail companies to come forward and register with State Consumer Protection agencies and be identified and listed in an accessible database. No exception or exemptions. A reasonable fee can be included for this registry to cover the cost of maintaining these records not to exceed the current charges applied for individuals applying for a driver’s license or renewal of a driver’s license.

When you analyze just how many locksmiths are in any given state, the cost to support actual licensing enforcement or compliance does not make sense, and is not self-supporting over the long run. This will become a burden on our already struggling state budgets. Registration, as the Society is presenting, would remedy this and encompass many more individuals who currently operate without oversight under current licensing exemptions. This type of registration can easily be implemented and accelerated through every state DMV that has already confirmed identity and photo identification.

Drivers Licenses can quickly be marked to provide such verification. A “code” included on that document, no different then a code for having correctional lenses or a code to indicate the ability to operate a motorcycle. This would save the states considerable expense and simplify implementation of this proposal while reducing paperwork.

The idea of demanding a certain level of education is subjective, and the state consumer protection agencies are more interested in knowing who is who, than trying to handle the broad spectrum of skill sets that the marketplace dictates. The registration can also serve as a resource for the residents of each state to locate a person in the craft by county and registered status. State consumer protection officials could then offer an actual webpage which identifies who is "registered" and it would become more relevant than the current gaming of the internet search engines, yellow pages, etc.

The Society of Professional Locksmiths has spoken with several locksmiths across the country and they agree that a reasonable "registration" is far more beneficial than licensing that has been proven to be a failure, and particularly when it has been shown that the existing “model” of legislation used in several states has had a negative effect on businesses and their bottom line.

Jeff link

6/14/2016 00:24:29

Is there any kind of official sayso on NC licenses yet?

6/14/2016 00:25:52

Is there any kind of official notice on NC licenses

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Is the North Carolina Locksmith License Board Being Dismantled? Idiot or Genius?

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